Kingdom Prophetic Society

Kingdom Prophetic Society

Tribal Warfare-vs-Spiritual Warfare

Much has been written & proclaimed about spiritual warfare throughout the church over the past few decades.  The battlefield has been understood as both the soul & body of human beings as well as the spiritual realms where angels, demons, principalities, powers, & other things that go bump in the night dwell.  The only thing I have to say about these things here & now is that one should pick their battles carefully and with spiritual discernment. If anyone is seeking education about deliverance ministery then here is a link to a website that seems pretty good although I have not spent a lot of time there.  In addittion I think any disciple of Jesus would do well to read Francis McNutt's "Deliverance from Evil Spirits."


The title for this thread was inspired by an article that I noticed earlier today about how human beings are compelled to form tribes and the effect this has on the social orders of communities from nations to the workplace.  It occurred to me that the church is not immune to this compulsion.  The author of the article asserts that once tribal allegiences are formed and the individual identity becomes associated with and conformed to that of the tribe it leads to suspicion & fear of those outside the tribe & creates an atmosphere in which those outside the tribe are prejudiciosly percieved in a negative light.  A situation develops in which the corporate beliefs of the tribe supercede the intuition, thoughts, & good sense of the individual member.  The tribal impulse & association produces powerful emotions in human beings which often lead to dramatic actions which might suggest the word 'herd' be substituted for tribe.  Here is a link to the article:


So.....what does this have to do with spiritual warfare and the church?  I feel that it is possible that the church has fractured into tribes, called denominations, that have taken on the identity of personalities, doctrines, dogma, and political ideologies to the point that there is almost not a recognizable tribe of Jesus active on the planet at this time.  I suppose a good way to frame the issue is to ask this question: Is the body of Christ being herded by people building their own kingdoms as opposed to the Kingdom of God or shepherded by Jesus?  Are the battles that have been approached from the perspective of spiritual warfare been accuratly percieved as the Father's business the church is to be about or simply warfare against another tribe whose values are different?  I seem to remember reading in the Bible that Christians owe nothing to those outside the body of Christ except to love them and that those not part of Jesus' Tribe would percieve that a group were actually disciples of Jesus by there love for one another.

John 13:35

New International Version (NIV)

35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Romans 13:8-14

New International Version (NIV)

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

1 Corinthians 5:12

New International Version (NIV)

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?



I have brought all of this up in the spirit of self examination.

2 Corinthians 13:5

New International Version (NIV)

5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?


I think this is important because the world is not percieving that the church is comprised of disciples of Jesus and there is a reason why.  It is not the devil clouding their minds either.  If it were that then we would be in bigger trouble than I think we are because then the message of the devil would be more powerful than the gospel and that is not the case.  I suspect there may be an issue with the messanger & not the message.  

I propose that the message of the Kingdom of God as a present reality and the evidence of that present reality manifest in the lives of Jesus' disciples is the only business the church needs to be about.  That begs the question of what would that look like as opposed to what the church looks like now?  Are there any doctines or ideas that are prevalant in the church that may actually be stunting the growth of the Kingdom of God in the lives of individuals as well as an experiential reality on the planet earth? How sure are we in the church that the traditional doctrines are built on the foundation of the apostle's teaching with Jesus as the cornerstone?  What we have been doing for the past two thousand years doesn't seem to be working.  Maybe it is time to examine the foundations.


Psalm 11:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 When the foundations are being destroyed,    what can the righteous do?”

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This video is very cool and makes the same point in a different way.


Be Blessed, David

Yes, very cool...Ron Ross
Liking this is easy. It is well stated and Biblically presented. But, liking it is also sad. Why? Because it all to accurately confronts the truth that too much of what is presented as Christianity to the world distorts the pure Gospel! There is a vast difference between tribal religiosity and The Message of Father's love through His loving children. We must be known for our love, not our religious or political correctness. Ron Ross

Brian McClaren's video above is easy to like, Papa Ron......if one is vibrating on the same frequency as the Holy Spirit.  It is interesting that you use the phrase 'political correctness' in this context.  What I mean to say is that the phrase, if we are to be consistant, must be applied to the church as well as to those percieved as progressive or liberal in their political positions.  Is there an acknowledged CORRECT set of political positions someone must have to be understood as a Christian by the church community?  While most church folks would hesitate to answer in the affirmative a large percentage of those who do not understand themselves as Christians could probably rattle off several things they feel are near & dear to evangelical politics.........Evangelical politics?.....should such a thing even exist?

Is this just a perception problem that some rebranding and marketing could fix or is it possible the message of the church simply isn't the message of the Kingdom of God as proclaimed by Jesus?  I'm not sure the church has so much distorted the pure gospel with its political positions and doctriness as disregarded it.  The JesusGenocide eschtatology is enough to give folks the impression we are less than happy folks and I'm not sure how 99% of humanity being eternaly tortured for being born fits in the context of outrageously almost to good to be true news..........if those things are the gospel then the church has actualy done a pretty good job selling it as good news. 

What do you think, Papa Ron? What would a tribe of JesusFollowers look like living in community and what kinda stuff would they talk about?



What a good question...When I was first introduced to Jesus, it was a tribe of "Jesus Freaks" who took me off the streets and into their "Jesus Freak" commune during the "Jesus People" movement in the early '70's. We lived intentionally committed to an Acts 2 lifestyle. Sharing all things in common was the norm. We worshipped and prayed daily and reached out to those on the streets, ect. Much like we had been just days, weeks before. We had an innocence of "comforting others with the very same comfort we has been given." I still have a relationship with many of these dear brothers sisters. We have carried on a conversation about Jesus for decades and still love sharing Him...Much more can be said in a different forum..."but I am afraid as the serpent deceived Eve, that our minds be somehow led astray from simple and pure devotion to Christ." (2 Cor. 11:3) Grace and Peace to you! Ron

Best answer possible, Papa Ron.  As we have freely recieved we should freely give. Intimacy with the Father was provided through the kindness & grace of Jesus with joy and it is through the kindness, grace, and joy of Jesus in God's children through the Holy Spirit that the Kingdom of God will grow. 


Mark 4:26-34

New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Growing Seed
26 He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground. 27 Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how. 28 All by itself the soil produces grain—first the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head. 29 As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come.”
It is just a matter of scattering the right seeds, I guess.
It is true that when our minds stray from the simplicity of Jesus' message that it opens the door to all sorts of ruinious ideas.  My concern is that this is what has already happened throughout church culture.  As the proverb goes "when good men do nothing evil prevails" and it seems that these conversations must take place one of these days.
I have thought much about the early church culture you compared the enviorment you were in immediatly following your conversion.  One of the things that I find remarkable about that period of time in church history is that ALL they had was a revelation of Jesus crucified, risen, and ascended along with a big ole' dose of the Holy Ghost.  They turned the world upside down. 
What kinda stuff do ya think it would take to get that kinda vibe going on now a days.  Everybody having one big bank account is a tough sell in these days of rugged individualism.  I have been content with the need for that type of change to be spontaneous and organic but I get.......errr...tempted to try and prod it along a little bit.


Think part of the blended understandings on spiritual warfare is that the name Yah Z'vaot means The Lord of Heavens' Armies, or The God Who is At War, that there is armor needed in daily life & when following the Lord, the results may end in death.  Yes, we are to love above all, but there is wisdom to be had regarding any stand against wickedness.  And since we are told to be in prayer continually, that tends to let me know that I need to be alert, for our battle is not against flesh and blood. I believe your focus on our call to love is accurate, but I do believe the Lord was in a battle to obey & love His Father in heaven first.  Was that not spiritual warfare?  



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